Why Your Liver Holds the Key to Healing with Jack Kinlan

Many of us have been told our symptoms are manageable — but what if the real question is whether true healing is actually possible?

In this episode, we sit down with Jack Kinlan, an Integrative Medicine practitioner and founder of Precision Healing, to talk about his powerful personal journey back to health, the critical role the liver plays in healing, and why staying open-minded about different modalities can make all the difference.

At 24, Jack's life was derailed by a cluster of mysterious symptoms — including chronic inflammatory response syndrome and Lyme disease. When both conventional and alternative treatments failed, he went deeper, eventually discovering that his health crisis didn't begin at 24, but was the result of long-standing factors rooted in a depleted and toxic world. That journey transformed him into the practitioner he is today.

We explore why detoxification goes far beyond trendy cleanses, how the liver sits at the center of true healing, and why addressing the emotional component of illness is just as important as the physical.

In this episode we cover:

- Jack's powerful healing journey and what finally moved the needle
- Why staying open — and non-dogmatic — about healing modalities matters
- The liver's critical role in detoxification and overall health
- What liver flushes are and how they fit into a healing protocol
- Mineral balancing and why depletion may be at the root of chronic illness
- The emotional component of healing and why it can't be ignored

If you've been searching for answers that conventional medicine hasn't been able to give you, this episode is a reminder that true healing is possible — and it often starts by asking deeper questions.

Connect With Jack

Website: precisionhealing.io
TikTok: @precision_healing
Instagram: @precision.healing
Substack: jkinlan.substack.com
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Get in touch with us!

Sarah:
Instagram: @simply.well.nourished
Website: www.simplywellnourished.co

Melissa:
Instagram: @rootedrocker
Website: www.rootedwellness.care

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Disclaimer:

This podcast is for educational purposes only. We are not medical doctors, and this content is not medical advice. Always consult your qualified healthcare provider before making changes to your diet, lifestyle, supplements, or medical treatment.

© 2025 Sarah Dalton and Melissa Rocker

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:19

Hey everyone, welcome back. Today I got to sit down with Jack Kinlan, and his story is honestly amazing. So at age 24, Jack's life was put on hold after he developed a cluster of these mysterious symptoms and diagnoses, including chronic inflammatory response syndrome and Lyme disease. When both conventional and alternative treatments failed him, he began to dig deeper to uncover these root causes. Jack came to realize that his health crisis didn't actually begin at age 24. It was the result of deeper, long-standing factors. This journey opened his eyes to the reality of living in a profoundly depleted and toxic world. Jack's personal health struggle led him to study integrated medicine at Georgetown University and train under leading mentors and practitioners in nutrition and holistic health. Today, he runs a full-time telehealth practice guiding clients through end-to-end detoxification, remineralization, and gut healing protocols. He also shares his message on platforms like TikTok and Substack, teaching the true causes of disease and the pathway to vibrant health. His mission is to help people bring healing back into the home and gain true self-mastery over their health. Jack is an amazing teacher and truly brings the mind, body, and spirit into this conversation. And I cannot wait to share it with you. Hey Jack.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Thanks for having me out.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Yeah, no problem. So I found you on TikTok and I'd been following you for a little while. And I was just like, gotta bring him on, Sarah. We gotta get him on here because I just love how you explain everything. And I love your story too. So before we kind of dive into all that I want to talk about with you, can you kind of just walk us through just your story, how you got into this world of, you know, mineral balancing and liver cleansing and all of the things? I know you have quite a chronic illness story. And so if you could just share that, that'd be awesome.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Yeah, definitely. So like a lot of people that get into this field, it's not because they just wake up one day and decide they want to commit themselves to holistic health. There was really, I was forced to do this, like literally forced, because by the age of 24, I pretty much had a health collapse. And I was living in New York City. And, you know, I was living in a moldy, water damaged basement, and I'd contracted what I believed to be Lyme disease a few weeks before I had even moved into this place. And so one night I just have like this crazy panic attack. And first time I'd ever even really felt anxiety in my life, let alone a panic attack, and something just shifted. I basically just went into this different portal and a different life opened up to me right then. I was like the beginning of my new life, trying to regain my health. And so I was dealing with eight or nine out of ten anxiety on a moment-to-moment basis, just constant, dealing with a lot of fatigue, brain fog, digestive issues, heart palpitations. I just felt like I had generalized disease in my body. But the truth is it didn't all start with that panic attack or move it into that moldy apartment. In the years prior to that, if I look back, you know, I was starting to deal with a little bit of fatigue, a little bit of immune dysfunction, kind of just always under the weather. And even like as I'm exiting college, a little bit of brain fog, I had a couple infections show up out of nowhere, which required some surgeries and I went under general anesthesia. And so, really, after I graduated college, I was feeling not so resilient. But at that age, you're kind of always feeling like you're gonna turn a corner and turn around. But I didn't know at that point that I was actually headed into something that was perhaps more serious and would ended up being more serious. And so, yeah, by the time I was 24, like my life was turned upside down. And I was looking for answers anywhere. Obviously, you start with conventional medicine and realized very quickly they didn't have a lot of help for me, right? So I went to this, you know, somewhat renowned Lyme literate doctor in upstate New York. And he was a nice enough guy, very intelligent man, but he decided that my case wasn't worth treating. And I actually think he was right because he didn't feel like I was purely good with Lyme disease. So he decided not to be antibiotic therapy. And so I sort of left that meeting being like just feeling a certain level of despair because I'm like, I don't really have any answers here. And then I saw this, you know, infectious disease doctor in Manhattan, and again, a super, super nice guy, very intelligent, an older man. But I quickly realized after that meeting that this sort of conventional system had no tools to help me. He was basically saying to me that the gist of the meeting was that I had inflammation in my brain. And I was like, Yeah, that makes sense to me. I feel the guy with inflammation in my brain, but he wasn't really offering any tools to help me. And he was referring me to this psychiatrist who had worked with people sort of in my situation. And at the time, I was thinking, hey, there's nothing wrong with speaking to someone, but I really felt like something else was going on. I felt like I had this infection on board. I felt like what was going on wasn't me. It wasn't like my identity. I felt like I had some sort of disease. And so on and on I go to sort of the next steps. There was functional medicine from there. And I hooked up with a team in uh the middle of New York City again, and they were a really great clinic. But what I experienced there and sort of what I've seen people go through in the functional medicine world is that it's sort of conventional medicine, and there's sort of natural solutions overlaid there. And so it's still that conventional medicine mindset. And, you know, they'll talk to you all day about the gut microbiome while giving you triple dose antibiotics, right? Listen, with Lyme and these things are really nuanced. And so antibiotic therapy is sometimes indicated, perhaps, especially if it's a really acute infection. You have a bullseye rash, you can discern pretty well that it's just a Lyme infection. But what I was really dealing with was just a total collapse, total exhaustion, a toxic burden. And so, you know, I did antibiotic therapy for many months at a time. I did ozone therapy, I did antimicrobials, obviously functional medicine, a lot of supplements. And um, you know, at that time, I think maybe the ozone helped me a little bit. But the antibiotic therapy actually set me up for some digestive issues down the road, which was sort of another flavor of my health journalist. So the whole thing, the the intense parts of it really lasted about six years, the first three years being the worst. And then, you know, years every year got a little bit better as I learned more about this holistic health stuff. But the antibiotic use during this treatment, I do think significantly slowed down my progress. And when I'm working with a lot of clients, I mean, and you probably see this in your own work or in your own experience, a lot of people's illnesses are the results of treatments, right? It's the result of the treatment to the symptoms. And that's where they have a real health collapse. And so I dealt with crazy, crazy bloating, SIBO. I, you know, every I would even drink water and feel super, super bloated. And so that led to continued brain fog, continued energy problems. And so eventually I sort of got onto a little bit of a different path. And I met some amazing mentors across the way, and I made a lot of different mistakes in my journey, but none of them I regret. I learned so much from all these different experiences, including doing things like long-term water fasting. Like I did an eight-day water fast and I was getting into fasting. Learned a lot from that. It wasn't the cure for me. But I eventually sort of got onto this idea, okay, when I detox, I feel better. So I know there's some sort of toxic burden. And so I would try different forms of detoxification. I eventually just kind of settled on liver detox and colon cleansing and sweating and basic things like that, which really seemed to help me. But then there was like another missing piece where I'm like, I'm doing all this stuff and I feel less inflammation, better mental clarity, but I'm still exhausted. Like I still felt depleted. And so eventually I was led to this sort of idea of remineralization and eventually mineral balancing. And so that was really a godsend. And at a certain time in my journey, about two years ago, I was like, okay, I think this is the direction to go in right now. Yeah, that was a huge turning point in my journey. There were several turning points, but getting on a mineral balancing program pretty much brought me out of chronic fatigue. And it gave me a lot more adaptive energy, adaptive resilience. And then all these other things that I was trying in the past, which weren't really working, I could start incorporating those things again. And so it's sort of it, it just everything started building on itself. And um, you know, it's kind of this thing like when people are really sick, there's just so much inertia against their healing. Like there's the emotional stuff, the physical stuff. So it's very slow. And then as you find the right tools and you develop the right mindsets, the right belief systems, it can start happening really rapidly. And so, in about a one-year time frame, with all the things I had learned from amazing mentors and starting to put it into action, aligning my values with my lifestyle, having the right tools like I healed pretty rapidly to the point where like I would consider myself to be well right now. Doesn't mean I don't have any symptoms, but like I'm out of the phase of chronic dis-ease for sure. And, you know, I can travel, go out to restaurants and enjoy my life.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

Right. And not constantly be thinking about the symptoms. I think when you are at the place where you can just do the things, do life without spiraling into your symptoms. I mean, mentally, even fearing them, that's when you know, okay, you've made it, you know. Wow, your story is amazing. I feel like it resonates so much with me, but probably with so many people listening too, because it's true. If you most of the practitioners that I know in this space who consider themselves well kind of had to take that full circle. Like they started maybe not knowing much about health, and then realizing that doing all these really complicated things to try to fix themselves, and then kind of coming back to that place of just almost like not knowing nothing, but starting at those foundations again, which are your mindset, which are mineralization, which are, you know, like your belief systems, all of those things. You have to start there. And that was my journey, at least. I did all of the functional medicine stuff as did it on a burned out body. I was completely burned out when I was trying to do all of these harsh detoxes and parasite cleanses and uh antimicrobials. And I thought I was doing the right thing because these are natural, but I was completely driving myself into further depletion and burnout. So by the end of it, I was feeling like garbage, you know? And then again, found mineral balancing, started implementing that. And that wasn't a quick fix. That wasn't like, oh, in three months I felt so much better. For me, it was like six months. And then I started turning that corner of just feeling my mind, my body, my nervous system come back online, you know? So I don't know what your experience was with starting mineral balancing, but I'm pretty sure you take kind of that X style approach as well. And so did you kind of immediately start feeling better, or did you kind of like have those months where you were maybe eliminating some things and then you felt better?

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Good question. So, for the most part, I did immediately feel better. I could kind of feel with taking certain supplements that my energy was turning on, my mood was increasing. And I think I owe a lot of that to some of the detox work I did. So I was doing a lot of this liver cleansing, right? I was just liver cleansing, liver cleansing, liver cleansing. So my detox pathways, we would say, were open. Like I was able to have some level of adaptive resilience to some of these treatments. And there definitely were different eliminations, though. And this is like a whole area of discussion, but this mineral balancing stuff is really, really deep, which is why I love it. And it does go to the root cause of a lot of what's going on with people, including a lot of these metals and chemicals that are being stored in the body and hurting our energy systems. And so some of the symptoms I felt, you know, on various weeks or times throughout the journey would be kind of like I had a mild cold, right? Coughing up phlegm, feeling a little bit under the weather, right? So just coughing things up. Wouldn't necessarily say I felt really bad, but I was noticing how my body was eliminating things. I would feel an internal anxiety, like a bodily anxiety. And a lot of my clients actually will feel this. And so it's good that I've sort of been through this experience because I can sort of coach them through it. But this is sort of a side topic. But I think a lot of the anxiety that people are dealing with isn't really in their mind. It's actually in their body. And if you really, really talk to them about it, and we nail down what are you feeling? It's a feeling essentially in the torso of the body. And it's a feeling that they're like irritated. It's like an irritation. And I really do believe that that is toxins flowing through the system, right? They're being released, they're flowing through the system. And so we perceive that as some sort of psychological event. In a lot of cases, it's not. And so I would feel sort of this irritation, you know, really just right after taking the supplements, there were periods of a little bit of sleeplessness. Um, I had a couple, like I remember a week or two where I was kind of just flat. I kind of felt depressed. And then I sort of came out of that. But what you'll notice is that you can kind of tell that your body's eliminating toxins because maybe if you jump into the infrared sauna or you take a binder or you do a coffee enema, or drink a little bit more distilled water, whatever it is to help your body flush these things out, that symptom that appears to be coming up will go away as quickly as it came. And so that's sort of reaffirmed to me. It's like, okay, my body is eliminating toxins. But yeah, a lot of what can come up to with the mineral balance team is emotional. It is emotional. And so this is why, like for my programs now, I don't I don't even do single consults anymore. I've sort of just gone to like full six or nine month programs because you're either in for this healing process or you're not. If you really want to heal with a capital H, which is what I'm so focused on, but the word healing, right? Which most people are unfamiliar with. And doctors are very unfamiliar with the process of healing and healing reactions. And actually, when someone has a healing reaction, most of the time they'll stop it. They'll stop it with antibiotics, they'll stop it with stamps.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

Yes. I actually want you to go into this a little bit deeper because I saw something that you posted the other day about the difference between a healing reaction and like uh what what was the other thing? A detox reaction, right? And like herxing or something like that. So I want to discuss this because, you know, healing with the capital H, like you said, like that true deep healing is not, does not come without discomfort. It's like a sanctifying process, right? It's going into those deeper layers of yourself to remove what's truly blocking you from being your yourself. And so I do agree that if you're not in it for the deeper spiritual, emotional healing, then it's probably not the best approach for you. But yes, please go into that a little bit more about a healing reaction that is to be expected when you're doing a deep healing program versus something like a detox or hurt type of reaction.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

Yeah. So this is one of the most important topics in all of health. So this gets back to like this gets into like spiritual ideologies and philosophies, basically about what the human experience is. But the body is perfectly designed and it's always going towards a place of reorganization and going towards a place of greater health. And so symptoms are not a disease. Symptoms are the body basically trying to compensate for stress and toxicity. So if you take a basic biology class, they talk about homeostasis, right? Homeostasis is an organism's attempt to maintain its internal environment despite like internal or external variables or stressors. But when you look at medicine, they they throw homeostasis out the window, right? They assume that everything is a specific disease process, which needs to be treated. And I mean, our medical system has gone so far off track into left field that it's hard to even understand their sort of approach to what's going on. And the results, I think, speak for themselves. But getting back to this idea of every single symptom is the body's attempt to basically throw off stress and toxicity now. That doesn't always mean you're getting better. Right. So this is where you need to have someone you're working with. Because if I move into a really water-damaged building right now, eventually I'll start having some symptoms, right? We don't want to be living in these toxic environments. And so my body, I might start coughing. I might start having anxiety as my body tries to mobilize these mycotoxins. I might start having digestive issues as my body tries to get rid of these things. And so that doesn't mean I'm getting better, though. I'm actually getting worse because I'm being exposed to a constant stressor. However, when we free up energy, so if we give the body the nutrients it needs, if we get rid of the things that shouldn't be there, like the toxins, the pollutants, the metals, the chemicals, the mycotoxins, if we resolve emotional conflicts, if we allow for emotional release, more energy will start flowing through the system. And that will allow for the release, the further release of stress and toxicity, which will appear as symptoms. Right. And so a healing reaction typically goes like this. Someone is on some sort of program, and it could even be this like say you're really toxic, you've got a lot of illness, and you just go to Costa Rica and you just sit in a hammock and you're just chilling there drinking coconut water, you just get rid of all that stress, you might start like physically feeling ill, right? You might start feeling nauseous, you might start having headaches, even as you're putting the best food into your body, the best beverages, you're totally relaxed because your body finally has the freedom space to work on this deeper level of healing. And so if you just go and relax, you can have a healing reaction, which is why it gets so you really need someone who's been through this process. But if you go on this mineral balancing journey, if you start detoxifying and you actually open up energy, because really what the human body, I believe, is just a vessel for energy to flow through it. So if we get rid of these blockages, energy will move through it a lot more quickly and you'll start to basically unlock and release these older levels of toxicity, emotional traumas, and you will experience it to some degree. It's usually not as bad as the first time it might have occurred to you, but it will be released out of your body. And so, like, for example, at this point in my journey, one of the things I'm dealing with as I'm getting healthier and healthier is anger, right? I have all this anger coming up, and it's anger about the experience I went through because it was traumatizing for me. And I felt isolated and I didn't feel like anyone was really in my corner or no one really understood me. And I felt angry that I couldn't live my, you know, resume a normal life like other people were living. And then there's also the unexpressed anger from my childhood, just not knowing how to have boundaries with people and communicate and always um choosing peace over maybe having a healthy conflict with someone. And so now that I come to this place of greater health and more energy, all this anger is coming up through my body. And so I've been working with, you know, basically being grateful for that experience and being open and curious to what's going on because I don't see that as a disease either, right? I'm not going to take that on as like, oh, I'm an angry person. Now I'm feeling angry in this part of my life. It's like, no, I'm just sort of releasing this in this part of my life. And yeah, it's it's kind of a confusing thing if you've never really looked into this, because our medical system is all about suppressing things. But yeah, this true healing work, like it can be really visceral and it can be on every single level, including the spiritual.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

Yeah. And I feel like honestly, and most of my clients, it does pop up first as mental emotional symptoms. I know, yes, if you look at it, you can feel it, you can feel it in your body somewhere. This is where I I like to bring in things like somatic release, parts therapy work, things to really just help people conceptualize what they're experiencing, I think can be really helpful, especially if they've never gone to therapy, especially if they've if these feelings are new. And most of us, uh millennials, I'm guessing you're a millennial, I don't know for sure, but most of us uh we're really taught to kind of just be on our own and go suffer in silence and all of this. And I do think this is showing up as disease all over the place, this suppression, this constant suppression. So for me, it really did pop up first as deep despair. Like my journey started, and I had belief in the process of what I was doing because I did have those three, three or four works, weeks starting mineral balancing where I was feeling more energized. And then it led me into a few months of really working through deep despair. I mean, though that was the feelings that I was feeling. And then I came out on the other side. I had released, gosh, I released so much arsenic, lead, cadmium, aluminum. I had like an everything coming out on that first test. And um, then I just really turned that corner. And this is why I so believe in this process and not fearing the healing reactions that are inevitably going to pop up. But yeah, I mean, when you do have those healing reactions, what are kind of your go tos for helping somebody get through that process? You spoke about binders. Do you have any? Like ones that you like to use.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

Oh, yeah, definitely. So I think the first thing is coaching them through the understanding, like what you were getting to, that this isn't a new disease in and of itself, right? Assessing the person and giving them a certain level of trust in their body, understanding their body's always in a healing process. Their body's doing everything perfectly. So having that deep level of trust is the number one thing. Because once you start distrusting your body, you start to fall into fear and chaos and trauma and suffering. And then that's a different thing you have to deal with. But yeah, in terms of um dealing with these healing reactions, I mean, one thing I've been doing a little bit of parasite cleansing recently. And one thing I've kind of come back to, it's really simple, is that when you are going through some of these feelings, like it could be emotional, it could be physical, it could be like a heaviness, a sluggishness, a brain fog. Really just making sure you're drinking lots and lots of liquids. Because this, you're like, like when you're feeling bad, you kind of forget about this. Like you might be tired and foggy. And so you might not remember to like really flush out your body, but um, you know, you might need to be drinking a gallon of distilled water per day or just like really, really clean water to keep flushing your body because the solution to pollution is dilution. And so that's really, really key. And I've got another theory. I I have this theory about why younger generations now, you know how everyone has their Stanley cup and everyone's drinking massive amounts of water. And we know that, okay, water is really important. Like hydration is so key for your health. However, that same generation that's drinking more water seemingly than older generations is sicker, right? And so what I think is going on is some of the toxins in the environment are preventing your body's ability to make structured water. And people are feeling really dehydrated. And so they have this urge to stay really hydrated because they're super, super toxic. So that's a sort of different rabbit hole, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:12

No, it's not. This is we're on the same, we're on the same page with that for sure, because I really get get into the quantum kind of biology world in my work as well and talk a lot about structured water, exclusion zone water, you know, in the cells and how you make that. And it doesn't mean drinking gallons and gallons of water. There's so many other inputs that help the cells create that. So um, you mentioned distilled water. I don't use that a lot, but would you use something like distilled water only acutely?

SPEAKER_01 24:44

So I done everyone has a different opinion on it. Number one, try to get highly purified water. And so, like a Berkey system, reverse osmosis system, that's like a good starting place. And then I would do a little something to, you know, remineralize it, maybe a little sea salt, maybe a little bit of lemon and lime if you can handle that. And um to give it a little bit more structure. I do think, you know, the more I've looked into it, distilled water is really helpful for releasing the inorganic minerals in our bodies, right? So distilled water can sort of flush out the inorganic minerals, which plays a big role. You know, basically as these inorganic minerals build up, we start to have um more muscle tightness and just build up of deposits in our body. And so it's studied that, you know, people who have lived off well water for long periods of time or even like high quality spring waters, like they can have presentations in their later life where they're basically turning the stone, right? Because they're taking so many of these inorganic minerals in. And so I think that is a big part of the aging process where you see old people who are really stiff and they're bent over and sort of degenerated. Some of that is the inorganic minerals. And so I think distilled water, number one, it's highly, highly purified, which is really good because we just, number one, we want we don't want to be introducing more toxins when we're drinking water. Um, but I think that's great. I mean, if you can find a really good quality spring water, I like the energetics of spring water, right? So if you can find a low TDS spring water, like that's basically the best thing you can be drinking. So I'm open-minded with it, but we definitely have to be filtering on some level. But yeah, I was listening to a presentation of like how aluminum affects your body's ability to create structured water. And so I think like a lot of people are feeling, especially these younger generations, they're feeling very, very thirsty because their body is polluted and they don't have the right structured water there. But the, you know, tap water or brita filtered water alone isn't really solving the problem at its core. I also made a video about this on TikTok, but I also think that Gen Z is drinking less because they feel super fragile. That's another theory I have, right? Like, because I believe your behavior and your actions in the world are very good reflection of your internal feeling, right? So if someone's saying, like, oh, I'm gonna go travel to Bali for six months and I'm gonna only take a backpack with me and I'm gonna party every night, you can tell that person's feeling energetic. They're feeling invincible, right? And when I used to go out in college and drink like 10 or 12 drinks, like I wasn't worried about it. Like I wasn't thinking that this is gonna be a big problem. I felt a certain level of energy and invincibility. And so the sicker you get and the more your energy drops, the more your world becomes more and more narrow. And the more you have to control the environment. So you start to think like, and listen, I'm not I'm not promoting that people go and drink. I actually think it's something that's good to sort of overcome, but they're not necessarily they're replacing it with screen time and like marijuana and things like that. So it's not as if they're like just doing positive things in replacement of drinking.

SPEAKER_00 27:48

But yeah, I think I mean, but even just the thought of going, just even if you took drinking out of it, just the person that feels resilient and energetic enough to pick up, take a backpack and go somewhere is different than the person sitting in their home, kind of scared and timid and not engaging with the world because of their fragility. And I love that you brought up that point because I see that too. And not just in the younger generation, I'm also seeing it in these in these women that are in their 40s and 50s who have just kind of collapsed, you know, after all of the changes and giving overextending themselves for so long. They're in this place where they're fragile now, you know?

SPEAKER_01 28:33

Yeah. And one of the things I see in my own journey is how my mind has changed when I have more energy. And where my mind goes is like, oh, I want to go travel to this place, or oh, I want to go do this thing, or I'll forget to take supplements because you might find like your sickest clients, they're never forgetting to take their supplements, right? They're so obsessed, and that's how I was because it's like you feel so bad that you're thinking, I need to do something. Like, I need to do something, whatever it is. And so that that will turn into supplements and things like that. And so you get to a point of your health where you start forgetting about all that and you start to think about bigger picture things. And so someone with a lot of energy is like, not only am I going to run my business and have these social events and travel, like, I think I want to write a book now. Whereas when I was really chronically fatigued, I'm like, I don't even think I can respond to an email. Like it takes, it takes energy to even think, it takes energy to process emotions. And so that's why, like, the Dr. Paul Eck writings and these other researchers and pioneers of mineral bouncing, when I when I first heard about it, I was a little skeptical because I'm like, okay, what is this? We're using like synthetic vitamins and minerals. Like, I'm kind of I'm beyond that. Like, we're going naturalistic. Like, I was like a back to nature mentality to some degree, which I am like beef liver, old beef. I am like a naturalist, but when I saw their writings about health and illness and energy and how broadly they were thinking about these issues of health and disease, I was like, wow, these guys really are understanding this at a very deep level, bringing in the spiritual and the emotional. And that's when I was sort of bought in on this process because they were going to root cause systems-based science. How do we heal heal people?

SPEAKER_00 30:18

Well before their time.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

It's like it's very much unclear how Dr. Pollack figured all these things out. Like he must have been channeling information or something because he was a super, super intelligent guy, very, very well researched. I think, you know, I describe mineral balancing as an empirical science, right? So that's what people need to understand. It's through observation that we have this understanding of how to interpret a hair tissue mineral analysis test. And through tens of thousands of tests, we can basically tell, okay, with these basic imbalances, we can see a little bit about your adrenal function, about your thyroid function, how you're probably feeling, including the emotional elements of it, because it's highly correlative, um, depending on different, you know, your sodium level, your NA to K ratio, we can get a little bit of insight into probably how that person's feeling without even knowing them. I can just look at someone's test and be like, wow, this person's been through a really long journey. They've probably experienced emotional trauma. And that's due to the work of Dr. Polak and all these other pioneers who basically over time put together some of these patterns.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

Yeah. What's uh the trickiest pattern for you to work with? I've got mine in my head.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

I think um, I mean, I think some of the sickest people. Okay, well, if their NA to K ratio is below one, then usually they, and this is probably indicative the minute you meet them, but they're dealing with a lot of emotional stuff. And there can be some trauma. I can go back to childhood, and um, they're often repeating their narrative to me of like what happened to them, how they were victimized. And so at that point already, I know that this is just this is beyond only a physical thing, right? That we have to work on multiple layers. Some people who have four lows and they're also really, really sick, you know, that can be a difficult one. Because some people who are kind of healthy-ish will be in a four lows appearance at one point during their time. So that's not necessarily the end of the world.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

And then I think that was me. Yeah, I was four lows, but like my constitution was generally strong, strong NAK, you know.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

Exactly. And then I think um, if someone's like a super fast oxidizer and they have a super low NADK ratio, they're usually just feeling so bad, right? They feel so anxious and they feel, you know, they don't have their nervous systems on fire and then they don't have any energy to do anything about it. So that could be a tough situation to.

SPEAKER_00 32:49

Yeah. The one I see that I think is the hardest to break is on on my end, is that calcium shell. Like if somebody's in a super thick calcium shell, I'm just like, we're in it because there's so much resistance there. They've they've developed that resistance over time, mind, body, spirit. And there's this hardening that is so difficult to sometimes bring to light for that person.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

Yes. So that's that's why I think there's many reasons why children heal more quickly with all these protocols. Yeah, they're less toxic. Yeah, they have a little bit more of a life force energy, we could say. Maybe they have more stem cells that might allow them to heal more quickly, heal more quickly. But I think a big aspect of it as we get older is we just accumulate more stuff. And one of the biggest accumulations is belief systems. Like so your mindset, attitude, and belief system, which you've kind of hardened over 20, 30, 40 years, and you start to think this is the way the world is. And is that hardening? It's literally the representation of that calcium, you're turning into stone, right? You're not open, you're not curious. And so, yeah, it's hard to break through that. I totally, that's a great point.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

Yeah. I mean, I've seen people start to come out of a calcium shell for a little while, but then, you know, they're starting to feel like, oh, I'm crying. I don't cry, you know, I'm not a crier. And then on their next test or whatever, they'll be back in it. So there is this resistance to come, to come fully out of it. But when they do, when I've seen somebody fully break up a uh calcium shell, they're completely different. There's so much surrender, there's so much engagement. And for the women that I work with, it's like they tap back into their feminine essence again, you know, which is beautiful to see. It's just again having that mindset, that belief system, those are all so reinforcing to the body, and for better or for worse. So I love that you that you see those patterns as well and can speak to that. Okay, okay. We got to get into liver flushes because I we had a little conversation about this before we got started, but I definitely want to share more about them. I get questions about them all the time and have I spoke about in a previous practice that I worked with women. We did a lot of these liver flushes, but they weren't standard. So it seems for you they're pretty standard. And I just want to know kind of your process when you feel like somebody is maybe ready to do one, and uh potentially, if you're willing, share some of the products that you you go with.

SPEAKER_01 35:25

Yeah, so I would not be on this call without the liver gall butter flush. There's no way, like there's no way or literally, so that was the first thing to bring me out of chronic disease, right? So I did about like 12 or 14 of these liver flushes because I saw some benefit from it early on and I understood it to some degree. I was reading a lot of Andreas Moritz's work. I was like, okay, this is working to some degree. Let me keep going. And if we go to the liver just for a second, the liver is, you know, it's we don't want to rank organs of the body, but the liver has the word live in it. It is perhaps the most important organ. It's the largest internal organ. It's massive, it stretches from your right side almost all the way all the way to your left side. It has over 500 vital functions. In Chinese medicine, they ascribe so much to the liver, but what they say is that the liver controls the smooth flow of qi throughout the body. So that's roughly meaning energy, but that includes emotional energy. And so I think one of the most key things about the liver gallbladder flush is that it can help release some of that emotional stagnation, which is so wrapped up with the disease process you're experiencing anyway. So much of dis-ease is emotional disease that you're feeling in the body. You're not really necessarily feeling it in the mind psychologically. It is emotions and feelings that are stuck in the liver, in the kidneys, in the lungs, in the heart. The heart experiences all the motion, all the emotions. And so Andreas Moritz wrote in his book that your emotional wellness and mental clarity is based off of your liver function. And Dr. Group, who's the CEO of Global Hearing Supplements, he has a lot of interesting things to say as well. He said, how you feel is based off your liver function. And so when I heard both of these people make these claims, I was like, wow, these are big claims, but I tested it for myself. Like I went down this process of just testing it again and again. And I have to say, they were right. They were 100% right because when you do a liver flush the right way, and you are lucky enough to have some of the experiences that can be common with liver flushing, you will feel very mentally clear. You will feel very emotionally well and at peace in a way which I promise some people have not felt since they were young children, right? Because we have all this emotional stagnation, we don't know how to express it, we don't know how to deal with it. And so on my fifth liver flush, I had this big breakthrough. And I basically spent like two weeks in this almost euphoric trance. And I felt so incredibly well. And I had this goodwill and peace coursing through my body. And so that was when I was totally convinced about this process. I just sort of stuck with it. And yeah, so with my clients, I like to build them up to a liver flush. And it depends where they're starting at. It's about like if they have enough energy and if their constitution is strong enough, then and they understand a little bit about detox, we can go into it right away. It generally is a very safe process. We just want to be careful with any sort of detoxification that we balance detox with nourishment. And so if people are too depleted, we don't really want to be doing any detox at all. We don't want to do any fasting, we don't want to do any intermittent fasting, we don't want to do anything that's gonna strain the nervous system too much. And so that's what I'm looking for. Is their nervous system too depleted? Do they have um too many things going on right now? But for the most part, you know, people can work their way up to a liver flush. Maybe you start with a castor oil pack, maybe then you go to some coffee enemas, and that can build your confidence. I find if someone does a coffee enema and they they realize, okay, okay, after the coffee enema or before the coffee enema, I was feeling this way. And after I was feeling this way, I can make a really good argument to them that a lot of that has to do with their liver function, right? Because most people will feel more clear, they'll feel emotionally relieved, they'll just feel their eyesight might be better. And I'm like, that's your liver function because the coffee enema is not really detoxing the colon. It's just sort of opening up the bile ducts and kind of letting the liver purge a little bit. And so the liver gallbladder flush is like, it's it's it's a much, much deeper process than the coffee enema. Yeah. So basically I've created a protocol based off of all my testing and I'm always refining it. And so I've actually got a liver cleansing group that I'm we're finishing up now, but I've like put about 28 people through this detox program during the springtime. And what I do is I do a modified version of the global healing liver flush. So they have a liver flush you can buy on their website and they have an instruction manual. I just find that their dosing for a lot of their protocols, it's doses for the tinctures were too high and it was detoxing meat too strongly. And so basically, I created a process which is a little bit more intuitive, actually a little bit shorter, because I think most of the benefits of the liver flush are just a few days of prep and then doing the flush. It doesn't have to be done perfectly. You can get like 70 to 80% of the benefits just by following some basic procedures. Yeah, for deep, deep healing, it's super, super important. And, you know, if your liver is congested, you could have 15 or 20 different symptoms, labels, diagnoses, because the liver's controlling over 500 vital functions. And so opening up that bottleneck, which for me was my liver, I really do think. And a lot of that goes back to the repressed anger and all these things and the toxins and the drinking and the antibiotic use and those things that um I've basically mentioned beforehand, but um, my health really started turning around getting into this process. And now I can use it as a tool to stay healthy, right? So when I start feeling some emotions building up in my body, I start feeling irritated. When I start feeling inflammation build up, which is like kind of par for the course living in this modern world. If you're on planes and you go out to restaurants and I'm sitting down a lot of the day, that's just sort of par for the course. I can use this tool to sort of reset my body in a pretty effective way.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

Yeah, I love that. There's um, there seems to be a lot of dogma, you know, in in this world regarding holistic natural health. You'll see people online that are like, oh, we don't need any supplements. We don't need to be doing all of this biohacking, like you just need to get back to nature, which is like kind of a pipe dream in some senses, because our society is basically set up to not let us be super connected in a way that we could have, you know, a hundred years ago or whatever. So, you know, I just the reason I'm speaking to this is because there's some resistance sometimes with doing things like coffee enemas or liver gallbladder flushes. Is that necessary? People are like, is that really necessary? Can't my body just kind of naturally do this? And what I found is no, no, it can't. Not in the modern, uh, not in modern day, uh, not with the amount of toxicity that we're exposed to on every level. So I don't know what your thoughts are about that, but I think I know your answer. But what do you say with people that have problems with bio or these procedures, right?

SPEAKER_01 42:44

That's a great question. Um, yeah, like I think someone who has a really prominent voice, you might have heard of him, is Dr. Jack Cruz, right? So he's super dogmatic and he's super, super intelligent, and he's right about a lot of things. He is like the smartest guy in the room, and you can't deny that. And his whole framework is around sunlight and EMFs, essentially, and creating and looking at the body as sort of a vessel for light and energy to flow through it, and that light is the primary fuel source. And he basically just says diet is BS, and he throws everything out. And let me just tell you my own experience. I healed in a pretty high EMF environment and a pretty low sunlight environment, right? As much as I can, I love to ground. I love to get sunlight. And I think grounding and sunlight is one of the most amazing tools to immediately feel better. I will never deny that. I think it's so, so powerful. But I don't know if the grounding and sunlight and living in a pristine environment would have gotten some of these deep um toxicities out of my nervous system and brain. I don't know if it would have really decongested my liver. I don't know that it would have brought me to this place of health by itself. And so I think the most important thing in this entire conversation, it comes back to sort of what we were talking about, like a hardening, a hardening of your views. One of the most important things, if you are dealing with chronic illness, you need to be curious, open, and flexible. At least try to be, right? You might have to admit that okay, maybe I don't have all the answers, and maybe I'm playing an active role in my own illness, right? And so maybe my diet, which I believe so much in, is actually causing me harm right now. Maybe I can come back to it at a later point. Maybe my views on detox are causing me harm right now. And so being really curious, open, and flexible is so important. And that's a balance for all of us because as we learn more, we start to get really obsessed with, you know, now I'm really into mineral balancing and now I am really into liver flushing. And there may be a point in the future where I'm saying, where I might have a more evolved understanding of it. And that probably will happen. I'll have a more evolved understanding. And so if I'm resisting that, then it'll take longer for that to happen. So the Back to Nature crowd, I really love them. I think they have a really good perspective to bring. But if you look at a lot of these people who have really good platforms and they just look vibrantly healthy and they're very attractive and handsome or very beautiful, then a lot of the times they didn't actually go through a severe chronic illness. They kind of started with normal health and then they really took it to the next level by, you know, living in Costa Rica and eating the most clean food. And I can tell you 100%, like that's gonna work for someone who is at a normal state of health, right? They're kind of, maybe they don't feel their best, but they have some level of adaptive energy and they can respond to stress. If you take these people with chronic illness who are reacting to everything, like it's a totally different playbook. And we have to use some of these modern tools, including, I found, I mean, we can see so many arguments against synthetic vitamins and minerals, but I can't deny the experience I had with mineral balancing. I can't deny the experience my clients have had with mineral balancing. So, you know, there's a lot of talk that's like, okay, we just use Sheila Jeet, or we'll use Irish CMOS. And it's like, that's good if you're already healthy. And those are great. They're great. They can take you to the next level. But when you are in the state of chronic illness, you're not going to be able to absorb, you're not going to use that, utilize that. It's not going to bring your system back into balance.

SPEAKER_00 46:29

100%. Yes, I totally agree with everything you just said. And as you were speaking, I was thinking about how, you know, I was pretty not well when we moved to Hawaii, which I talked to you about. I knew nothing about functional health. I knew nothing about functional medicine or anything holistic. I was just a baby, you know, moving off to Hawaii. But that experience, getting outside every day, we had access to very clean water. Um, you know, our house did not even really have, we didn't have AC. There wasn't a lot of dirty electricity in the house. So there was a lot of things that I was living out without realizing it. And by the end of that experience, I was about 80% better just by just by getting rid of toxicity and being in an environment that was conducive to healing. And at the time, I was also blessed enough where I didn't have to work. So it was like this perfect healing environment for me without even, it was like a gift from God, you know. Um, but that's not realistic for everybody. So I do believe you can heal in the environment. I mean, not in the environment that you're in, if you're living in something that's toxic or we need to explore the environment. What can we do within our control, within reason? But, you know, to say, okay, there are people out there, there are practitioners out there that say, okay, you're gonna have to move to Costa Rica for six months if you want to get better. It's like, I just don't accept that for the people that the people that we're working with that I believe can get better.

SPEAKER_01 48:00

Yeah, I see a lot of people get better in non-optimal environments. And I think so much of what we want to do is build resilience, right? So we want to, you know, basically make the body so energetic and so resilient that you can go into onto an airplane and go be exposed to a little bit of mold and have the seed oils and have a cocktail if you want, and still be able to bounce back more quickly. And so I think that's where the work of, you know, detox, mineral bouncing, everything we're talking about, that it can lead you to that place of resilience where you basically have kind of wound back the cock. You are a little bit younger, you are more energetic and more resilient.

SPEAKER_00 48:38

Yeah. Man, this has been such a great conversation. So many nuggets. I love your insight. I love your perspective on health. I knew, I knew it was gonna be a good one. Um, but before we wrap it up, I do want to just basically see where people can find you, what's the easiest way to reach you? If somebody wanted to join one of these detox programs that you have, how did they get into that?

SPEAKER_01 49:01

Yeah, great question. So um, you know, my biggest presence is on TikTok right now. And so you can see me at the precision.healing. I'm starting to move some of my videos over to Instagram and YouTube under a similar precision healing handle. My website is precisionhealing.io. And um, yeah, so right now I'm working with clients who, you know, usually have chronic illness and fatigue and these various issues. And so I do mineral balancing, detox, gut healing protocols with them. And as we talked about, it's really focused on bringing people to a better level of vitality and resilience and going through that healing journey. And in terms of the cleanses, I'm trying to host those on a quarterly basis. So I'm just wrapping up my first one. We really focused on the liver because it's springtime and that's been super fun. And it's great to do these things in a group because sometimes, you know, these things are difficult to do. Like going back to the liver flush, like it is a little bit of a challenge. You do have to put a little bit of skin in the game and set aside some time for it. So it is helpful to do it sort of in a little bit more of a group setting, even if we are meeting over Zoom. So when I have the um the date set for my next cleanse, which will probably be in the peak of the summer, then I'll definitely be broadcasting that over my social media.

SPEAKER_00 50:14

So you said you do do those quarterly quarterly, but I love that you said we're really focusing on the liver because it's spring, and that kind of follows that whole quantum biology world as well. Just yeah. But um, yeah, this has been such a pleasure. Thank you for sharing your story and your insights. And I cannot wait to share this with everybody who's on the show.

SPEAKER_01 50:34

Yeah, I had a great time, Melissa. Thanks for having me.