Is Being a Perfectionist Keeping You Stuck?

In this episode, Sarah and Melissa dive into the hidden ways perfectionism shows up in our health journeys. From all-or-nothing thinking around food to the pressure to “do everything right,” they unpack why perfectionism often keeps women stuck instead of helping them move forward. They also share practical mindset shifts to help you move from rigid rules to a more sustainable, compassionate approach to health.

In This Episode We Cover:

• How all-or-nothing thinking shows up in nutrition and wellness
• The connection between perfectionism, control, and the nervous system 
• Why sustainable health requires flexibility, not perfection
• Simple ways to shift toward progress over perfection

Get in touch with us!

Sarah:
Instagram: @simply.well.nourished
Website: www.simplywellnourished.co

Melissa:
Instagram: @rootedrocker
Website: www.rootedwellness.care

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Disclaimer:

This podcast is for educational purposes only. We are not medical doctors, and this content is not medical advice. Always consult your qualified healthcare provider before making changes to your diet, lifestyle, supplements, or medical treatment.

© 2025 Sarah Dalton and Melissa Rocker

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:19

All right. So I love when we just hit record and we're like, let's do the thing.

unknown 0:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

We're laughing. We're, we're having, we're already, we basically, you know, have these conversations. So today we're talking all about perfectionism because it has come up again and again and over and over. I know for me, particularly in the last few weeks, I feel like it's come up in the interviews we've had with the guest experts that we've had on, which has been so fun. Um, but yeah, it's come up, you know, it's always in there. It's always in there because it's so, so common. And it's also something that we see with our clients repeatedly. And it's often a barrier and an obstacle when it comes to moving forward with our health in one way or another. And not just our health in every area of our life, right? But specifically, that's what we're seeing. So I just feel like, yeah, it's time to for us to have this conversation.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Yeah, for sure. I think we again, like you said, we talk about this all the time. And we talk, we see it so frequently that it's even a question in our intake form now. Would you describe yourself as a perfectionist? Yeah. So like literally ask women that because we need to know. Because that that tells us so much more than just like a personality type. It tells us where your nervous system state is at. You know, like where are are you in fight or flight? If you tell me you're a perfectionist in most areas of your life, then I can guarantee without any kind of testing that you live kind of in this place of fight or flight, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Yep. Yeah. So what's interesting when you say that, I think it's interesting because I feel like growing up and like even I I never I didn't identify as a perfectionist, like, which is interesting because I think I almost feel like it's uncommon to hear somebody that doesn't identify that way these days, right? And what I but what I realized is that maybe overall, not in every area of my life, like there was maybe just more natural for whatever reason, you know. I think, again, the root and the underlying where it comes from is often it's just so different for everybody, right? So that's where it's such a layered conversation. But for me, I just think it's interesting. So I guess speaking also to the women listening who are like, well, I don't really think I am. Like, how do I know if I am? What does that look like? That's probably something to get into, right? To like unpack that. Because I do think in certain areas of my life, I absolutely was. Black and white, all or nothing, go big or go home. Like it doesn't count. It's not enough. All of those thoughts and those things in specific areas. And for me, it often was my relationship with food and my body. Like that was the one of the biggest areas I saw it play out.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

Yeah, there's definitely, I think it, I think maybe the seed that's planted in perfectionism somewhere along the way. I mean, again, many seeds can be planted that leads to this kind of perfectionist type attitude. But is that feeling of, I'm not good enough, you know, somewhere. And you might not, it might not even be very overt, but I think the reason we're seeing it so much more now is because there's so many areas in our lives with the with again, social media, we talk about it all the time. But with everything that we're exposed to, there's so many areas now that we can say, I'm not good enough. And all the filters, oh my gosh, don't get me started on the filters. And I use them too. Like I so let's just start surface level. So we have this image as women that we feel like we can try to upkeep that drives us into perfectionism, you know, and that might look like I can't miss a workout. I have to completely perfectly count my food and macros. I have to have perfect lips and a perfect nose. And, you know, that can kind of lead us. So there's this physical perfectionism that can happen, and we'll go the layers deeper. But I think it's important right now, just starting the conversation by saying the reason we do that, if we go back to the nervous system state, is because we're afraid. We're afraid of not being accepted, we're afraid of not being loved, or layer deeper trauma happens somewhere in your life where you were out of control of something and you learn to be hyper-vigilant to protect yourself. You know, so those are the people that you can't see delegate things. They have a tight grip on your life in every area because they're afraid that if they loosen up the grip and the reins, that everything will crumble and it will fall apart. So when we say it all can look so different, perfectionism, we mean it because it depends at what layer kind of you're feeling that fear. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Yeah. I mean, and that fear, I feel like that is it's such a it's like literally the root. If we're talking about the root, and then again, it shows up. And often one of the things, one of the areas. So definitely I want to dive a little more into I think like the relationship with food and body and our health and like our healthy habits that we're trying to create, right? All that how that shows up there. And then, but productivity and is like a like time management, productivity for busy moms, the women we're working with, we're talking to, right? It's that fear, again, it's like doing all of the things and juggling all of the balls, trying to keep all the balls in the air. And truly at the root, right, it's that fear of what happens if I drop this ball. Like I can't possibly, I can't stop moving. I can't stop doing my to do. Like I have to keep checking things off the list, otherwise fill in the blank, right? Like that fear of the unknown of what will happen. And the fear of, again, it's like there's so I think it's so individual of like fill in that blank. What what is your fear of what will happen if you rest, or if you don't clean the house one day, or if you don't right, don't do the thing you feel like you need to keep doing. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 6:35

I love that point, Sarah. I really do. And I'm sorry, I'm like, yes, as you're bringing up. Naming it. Yes, exactly. Naming the thing. Yeah. It's like you slay the demon when you can. It's like, but we are a lot of us that have been stuck in perfectionism. And again, I go in and out of seasons, depending on what's going on, where my anxiety, fear kind of driven behavior that leads to that perfectionism or fear and anxiety feelings lead to the behavior of perfectionism. And yeah, so, but when you can really get this is why we are so big with nervous system regulation, which I know is thrown around a lot, and there's a lot of different aspects that go into nervous system regulation. It's a whole different can of worms. But we're really big about that nervous system regulation, the somatic release, the body keeps the score kind of thing, because it is all connected. And if we can't get ourselves to a place, at least a little bit of calm, where we can name the thing that we're actually afraid of, then we're we're just gonna keep kind of being a slave to it. So I know you and I are very big about pen to paper, you know, even in the rooted feminine that we're launching. And yeah, so we'll get we can talk about that too. So good, yeah. But you know, we we really give those tools to kind of get into the subconscious and name that part of you that's afraid. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

Well, I think to that point, it's it's often, and again, I'm I'm just seeing like all the the women I'm I work with, it's the they're coming to my mind because they're always on my heart. But this this picture of this conversation of like they even maybe know that they're overproducing, overdoing, over like overscheduled, all the things, but it's that stuck feeling. It's literally like nervous system stuck. So it's not like yes, awareness identifying it. And then it's like moving into sometimes it's it's not just making the decision, okay, I'm just gonna do less. Okay, I'm just gonna rest now. It's literally doing that work to tell our body and our mind we are safe, right? To reset and support the nervous system, like you're saying, like that's really like an actual real tool. It's not like you said, it's not just like nervous system. It's like that will affect how you're moving through your life.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

Yeah, that's such a good point. And you know, most women don't want to be stuck there. I've never spoken to a woman that wants to be vigilant all the time. You know? And I've spoken to women that want to rest, they want to feel relaxed in their bodies, they want to love their bodies. Like, I mean, maybe there's that person that might say, okay, well, I'm just a high achieving woman, but you can be high achieving and still be peaceful.

SPEAKER_00 10:20

Okay, let's talk about that. How do we hold both, right? Like the high, because I think that's like literally, that's probably what now the next thing of like, okay, yes. And I like having high standards for myself. I like, right? So it's like holding both.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

High standards are different than perfectionism. I mean, you know that, but we work with a lot of high achieving women, high performance women, but they have that flexibility within their nervous system and they have that clarity in the structure of their the rhythms of their day, the structure of their day where they're not stuck in that. It's it's more of a state of being. Like perfectionism, in my opinion, is more of a state of being. And it's like you're trapped, you're stuck in this overperformance mode, over-output mode. So, yes, if you are, you know, in this career that demands a lot from you, you can still do that career and not constantly feel like everything's gonna fall apart, right? Or constantly feel like it's all on you. So that's kind of why this conversation matters because I think that get those wires get crossed and people think, well, this is just my life and my job, and I, you know, I have to be on all the time right now.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

That's the that's exactly what we're trying to unwind in people. Right. Yeah. I think that stuckness, I mean, you you hit the nail on the head. Literally, I mean, yeah, it's that. And I also like how you said this idea, because okay, again, we hear that, well, I'm a recovering perfectionist, right? And and I've heard that before, and I'm, you know, and it's kind of whatever works for you as far as like how you want to look at it. But I I love this idea. It's not like, well, it's I was and now I'm not, or I'm fixed, quote unquote, right? Like I'm it's this idea of like moving in and out in different seasons, and it's being able to see it when it, when it's arising or when it's coming up. And the for me, here's the difference for me, I think too, of like kind of where I can literally tangibly see are these simply high, these are like high standards. I'm being disciplined, I'm showing up with integrity and I'm doing what I said I was gonna do, like I, you know, all of that versus it's kind of literally how it feels in your body. Like, are you, is there that like again, hello, nervous system, like that stress, that holding on so tight, that like what are the emotions and the things that come after that? Well, I'm gonna show up for my workout, whether I'm, you know, if I'm ill or if I'm a kid's like at all costs, versus that's like a great example, I feel like an amazing example.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

And that shows up all the time. That is the language that is used in the space, online space specifically, you know, and it's like, oh, you you show up no matter what, because, you know, but they're not taking into account that that person has a nanny or a village that that other person doesn't have, you know. So there has to be this realistic expectation on yourself. You know, your output cannot be directly correlated with your self-worth. And that is where the problem is. It's like I am worthy and loved and good enough when XYZ fill in the blank, right? And that is just not true. And I know you and I come from this Christian perspective, and that has been so grounding for me through my healing journey of remembering who God says I am, you know, how God tells me not to fear. Like those are my mantras when I'm getting into that grounded space of really saying, I am loved, I am held, I am known, I am the daughter of the king of kings, you know, like speaking those things over yourself when nobody is there to speak them over you is so powerful.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

It's so powerful. And I think that, I mean, that just leads, it's you can absolutely see, and there's so much validation in this conversation, I hope, for the women listening. It's like it makes so much sense how we get there, right? And why the with our culture, with like all the different reasons why. But like that the fact that we are struggling with this often, very, very common, it makes so much sense. So validating that. So validating. And I'm glad you said that, yeah. Yeah. And like, and and then it's and that's where it's like this conversation, just unraveling that and getting to for you, like if it's is it serving you? That's the biggest question, right? Like, I think sometimes we can get in that, in that question it to the point, well, well, it's working. Like, I'm getting things done.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

If we were to ask somebody in that state, is it serving you? They would be like, Well, yes. Nothing has fallen apart. Like, look at me. I'm holding it all together. Like, what is that bar? Right. But we're just here to say that the, you know, just from a personal stance, like a personal stance, going from, okay, let me give you some perspective on my life, Sarah. I don't know if you even know this, but when I first had Elias, my first baby, he had some medical issues and stuff. I wouldn't even let other people hold him. I was so hyper-vigilant, I thought if I let him go, he will die. That was like the fear that I couldn't name that was keeping me stuck, and I have to do it all. So I didn't even allow myself to have a village. I didn't allow myself to let people help me because I thought somewhere in me, I'm the only one who can do it. So I think again, it there's this other side of this. I've, you know, my my parents love you so much, parents. But my parents love to be needed. Their self-worth, a lot of times I feel like is tied, I could be misspeaking, comment in the show, or comment in the show, mom, if you're listening. Um I love it. But they love to be needed. So, you know, a lot of their self-worth has been tied to their children needing them. Yeah. And now in my 30s, as I'm learning this stuff and identifying this, I've had some really amazing conversations with my mom, noting her own perfectionist tendencies. Right. Which are completely different. They don't have to really do with diet or exercise or anything. It has to do with time the the fear of not being needed.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

You know, that's so interesting. I love that the the tendencies. I think that's a great way to put it. Like, and it could be probably it'll show up in different seasons, like when you become a mom, when you right, when you're doing different things in your life. So it's that very much unpacking and like looking at your season of life, right? And the tendencies, like where is that heading? Because yeah, like for me, there was that was very much the again, the food and the body. And I think that's still like that's still there. That and an awareness around like that tendency could be there. And often it shows up in times of stress, right? That's added stress, right? That's the whole thing, right? That's our safety net or or our response to the stress of life, right, is holding tighter, doing more, right? Being better. Like, and again, we say this because we know it, because that I think, and again, maybe I I'll just put that like perhaps it's just part of being human. Like, that's because it's pretty universal.

SPEAKER_01 18:10

I think again, it's I do think about that um from sometimes I think about that from an ancestral perspective. When you talk about perfectionism, you're like, it's kind of everywhere now. And I'm like, oh, was this something that always kind of existed? And I don't think so. Yeah. No, that's that makes sense. Thousands of years ago, you know, they were feeling that. So I think this new manifestation, we did have fight or flight, that is a big thing. They were also like surviving, right? Survival, survival, right there, you know, but this is where we go. So it always comes full circle back to the foundations because I want to simplify the conversation and saying, even though, you know, your fear or your stress is manifesting in perfectionism and this in this perfectionist kind of expression, it honestly does come back down to how your nervous system and subconscious are kind of how your subconscious is processing what's in your nervous system. And that always is that really rigid, stressed fight or flight place that you're in. And your subconscious is kind of feeding that with I'm good enough, I need to do more, I need to stay safe, you know, and that is what's driving that constant fight or flight. So, I mean, it again, it's not always so easy as going and doing yoga.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

Yeah. I was gonna say, you, because literally you have this rooted feminine course that's really diving into so much of this. And so what would you say to the woman listening who's like, okay, like I'm seeing this show up? I'm seeing now, I feel like I'm interviewing you. I'm like, what Murza Thomas. Um, but literally, I'm like, I'm like, this is, I think this is so valuable because this is again getting getting to that root, which we love. What are some of the things that the woman listening, she's like, okay, I see that I do this, that, and I feel that fight or flight, just some simple strategies, some things that she can do maybe literally today or like after she's done listening to this podcast.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Yeah. So that is a tough one to answer because everybody's so different. I will say in the course, there's go that, you know, is going to be part of the energy reset. There are, you know, uh, there's a whole resource library that's very customized to whatever it is you're feeling in that.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

It's like choose your journey.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

Choose it's kind of choose the thing that's gonna work well for you. But I know our listeners are probably gonna get annoyed when I say this, but any grounding practice that you can do during the day, and you know, of course the foundations, but so many women have they move through their day very rigid, very fast, very like when I'm interviewing, you know, new clients about how they move through their day, I often ask them, like, how are they like, well, first I do this, I wake up and I eat breakfast, and then I get water, and then I go, you know, blah, blah, blah. I get my coffee. And they tell me the things they're doing. And I'm like, no, no, no. How are you literally moving, breathing, thinking through your day? Because those are the parts that people aren't aware of. And that's where we need to start building awareness, that connection of how your body, how you're literally, are you rushing to get dressed or are you walking to get dressed?

SPEAKER_00 21:51

Yes. Are you breathing? For me, I like hold my breath a lot.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

There's that awareness piece that we love to do that. I love that much. Just that. That's where I would have people start. Truly, that's how the story of how do you move through the day?

SPEAKER_00 22:08

You know, they're like giving you a checklist. This is what I do. No, no, no. How? I honestly, again, we we talk about this, but I feel like I don't think I've actually heard it for framed like that. And so that I feel like we can all picture that. Because literally this morning I was like, because all, you know, every day is different and it's, but it's the more we can bring our awareness to it. It's not good or bad, right or wrong. We're just asking you to kind of pull back that lens because that'll give some insight into, again, that a little bit of that nervous system and where we're at, like just that state uh that we're in on a regular basis, right? Because yes, we all have busy days, we all have full lives, like, and the mornings get can get crazy, but I think it's also taking that power back of not a little bit of that, not again, our schedule and our life, life gets lifey. We we all know that. And and in the midst of that, how am I showing up? Or how do I want to show up? How, how do you want to move through your day? Do you want to have right? Like where where are you at and where do you want to be with that?

SPEAKER_01 23:21

Yeah. And there's that's another kind of full circle moment too, because you had said earlier that, you know, a lot of the women we work with are incredibly self-aware. So we're asking you to build more awareness, like, wait a minute. But they're they are self-aware. They can name a lot of what's what they're experiencing and what they do throughout the day. But it's it's both and like you have to not only have the awareness, but you have to have the appropriate next step to, you know, have trust in the body. So the awareness can also quickly turn into hypervigilance if you don't, if you're not being an objective observer. So if you you have to kind of take yourself out of the situation and objectively observe yourself, which is a skill. And that is something that we teach in the rooted feminine. But it's how to become an objective observer of your circumstances so that you don't get sucked in the hyper-vigilant spiral, whatever, you know, that can easily happen when you're in stress.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

No, I I mean, I think this, I love where this conversation has gone and where it's going because I think it's just that that deeper look into kind of what is happening when we're when we're saying perfectionism, when we're talking about perfectionism. And I'm wondering too, I know we touched, you touched on like, I just feel like it's an important piece of this to touch on like community, asking for help, you know, and inviting people into that because it's that idea of, and maybe, and again, and I feel like it's that control of like literally, like you said, like if I don't do it myself, it's either not gonna be get done or it's not gonna be done the way I want it to be done. Like the right way, I think there's a couple of those things at play where again, the women that we're working with, it's if we're constantly trying to do all the things and not really letting others in to help, that doesn't leave a whole lot of capacity and room for for yourself and your growth and your health, right?

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Yeah. I mean, the people around you, like if you truly don't trust the people around you, then that is a different conversation that needs to be had because that is a boundary that needs to be set for yourself. So that might look like creating a different fit friend group. And that's hard, especially when you're exhausted, especially when you already have this wall up where you don't trust people. But, you know, yeah, community is absolutely essential for healing. I firmly believe that can having people that you can delegate uh tasks to, having people that you can call on when you need to talk, you know, or I mean, it's hard. I've just now in this last year started to build a small commute, a small village in my in my town of people that I don't feel well and they'll bring me food. Or, you know, I need somebody to watch my son for an hour, and it's like, ladly, it's like this. And I think that came from me becoming more open. So I don't know what comes first exactly. Like I had to decide I was gonna trust new people and build a village that wasn't necessarily my family, even though my mother helps me a lot. I'm just saying, you know, she can't do it all. So I don't know if that really answered what you were. No, I think that's helpful, you know. I also think that again, I don't want to get too deep here or anything, but like I have hit my rock bottom before. I've hit rock bottom of thinking, I don't want to be on this earth anymore. And I think once you get to those depths of yourself and you decide to turn around and you decide like literally what's the worst that can happen. And for me, I ask myself that question a lot. What is what's the worst that can happen? Well, I die, and that's not even that bad because I'll go to heaven, I'll go be with you know, Jesus. So it's like once you kind of get to that point and you have your rock bottom moment where you see this way of living, this hypervigilance that I'm in constantly is not serving me anymore. You you will make those changes. Like, and I hope it comes before that point, like it did for me. I that's my hope for the rooted feminine course is to help you identify those pieces of yourself and turn and have a new perspective before you get rock bottom burnout, which we find a lot of women burn out too, you know, doing it all. So, yeah, I mean, again, I don't mean to get like depressive or anything on this episode, but I think that's a really real thing that needs to be said is that you will eventually see that this way of living is not serving you anymore.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

I think that is so, so important, such an important piece. And the interesting that I think just like you said, like the openness and and making that decision to be open, to and then I think that it's like even just starting there and then deciding, right? Like this, okay, this is if if you decide, if and when you decide this is no longer serving me, and knowing that like anything, it's not just an overnight, like, okay, I've got my right, uh obviously it's like I've got my village, I got all these things, but it's this slow unraveling of the way we did things and the way that we, you know, we basically the way we thought about things, productivity, health, and finding that new path, right? Like blazing that new path, which and those, you know, new neural pathways, the new nervous system, like systems, all of it, like resetting it takes time, takes community, takes intention, right? And it is possible.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

Yes. And I feel like I feel like to make this conversation, because we've touched on all the holistic stuff that you just said. Like that's all the holistic stuff and alternative, it just foundational. It's not even alternative. That's foundational. That's how we were designed to live. But, you know, we have this new, uh, I would say growing population of women that are also undiagnosed or maybe just don't really fully connect with the term of neurodivergent. And I we have to bring this into the conversation because there are the women who truly are trying everything, they're doing the foundations and they are trying to, they're, they're, you know, they have the faith and all the things, but they're still struggling so much. And that is where I want to eliminate the shame with going. And if you're in that place, I I should have gone to a doctor probably when I was in that deep, deep, dark place. But talking to, you know, a mental health professional is like absolutely okay. And no shame attached to that. You know, I have to say that because people, there's all this shame around medication, especially in the holistic health and wellness world. But if it increases your quality of life and it helps you to broaden your perspective, like I totally think that is completely healthy and warranted in certain seasons of people's lives. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

Well, I'm so glad you said that. Like, I think that, like you said, it's an important thing to mention to. I mean, we could probably do a whole episode on neurodivergence, all of that, and how it plays into our health, our life, all of the things, especially as moms, especially as we are unpacking things from our childhood, growing into our identity, so many different things still going on.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

Yeah. And I I struggled with ADHD my whole life. And I went a long time without wanting, I was just trying to treat it all so naturally and holistically. But what I wanted to bring into that neurodivergent kind of ADHD conversation is that there is this tendency within neurodi autism, ADHD, all those kinds of things, which this is a whole nother conversation too. But perfectionism is especially like big here. Ruminating thoughts, like depression, all of these things can live there even more when they come up more readily because we seek approval and validation so much more. We mask a lot more, we don't, we don't know ourselves very deeply. Like it takes a long time to get there. So that's another reason that, again, I don't ever want anybody to just like get diagnosed and think, oh, this is just how I am. This is my identity. But if you find that you're doing all of the right things and you've tried a lot of the natural, holistic approaches and you're still struggling, I just want to eliminate the shame and going and looking for that help if you need it. And I think that's also a disclaimer. Yeah, we we obviously know that people can heal and get back on track. And there's so many beautiful, amazing tools that we teach that can help with this perfectionism. But, you know, and that's I mean, enough said. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

Yeah, no, I think it's incredible. And again, we can we literally just hit record and we're like, let's have a conversation around this. And I think that's the beautiful thing. Honestly, that's why I love podcasting and this platform to just have the conversations, the honest conversations that we would have with our friends that we do, you know, obviously just like showing up and saying the hard things, kind of talking through, unpacking things. And I I really do love where this conversation went because I think it's so it just that, well, and that's what you I love about you. Like you always help me go that layer deeper, truly. Like, you know, and I will say I feel like just maybe bringing it a little bit full circle too, like just a little bit, because then I I mean it's not like I'm not deep, but I do, I very much focus on, you know, the what you can do, the practice. Right, like the strategy, the habits, like how it shows up kind of on that, even on right, on that, like for some people it's just surface some people. Surface layer, yeah. Like I'm like, what's the it's the surface? I'm like, what is that layer called? Um so I mean, ultimately what I just wanted to say, because I in the beginning it was like kind of I was like, let's re-go back to that. For me specifically, like I said, the area with the perfectionism. And now I'm like, honestly, now I'm like going, you're helping me think I'm like, well, there's a lot more going on that I need to unpack. And when it comes to my relationship with food and my body, it's definitely been very much that that all or nothing, that either I'm moving the needle and I'm doing all the right things with my healthy habits, or, you know, and I think I'll say for me specifically, I just want a couple examples. I think examples are helpful when it comes to like this season, it's showing up a lot in my movement and my how I'm doing, how I'm approaching my exercise, which is very interesting because I feel like in the past it was a lot around the food. And now in this season, it's shifted to the movement, right? And so it's it's I for a while, I was putting on my calendar, I'm gonna do five workouts a week. I'm gonna do five, 30-minute workouts. So I was in my brain, I'm like, okay, well, that's that's a lot like 30 minutes. That's realistic, that's doable. And honestly, for my season of life, because my kids are in school, that is realistic and doable. And was I doing it five days a week? No, never, not once. Not once, Melissa. So it's like having a goal. Yeah. And that's good. So that's helpful. Knowing I wanted to move my body, I wanted to bring that strength training in, truly. Like that's where I'm at. And like, and honestly, it was my sister. Shout out to my sister who gave me a gentle reminder of the things that I share with my clients. She's like, how would you how would you talk to your client about that? And also this, she's like, well, maybe try two, two days, like putting that on the calendar, and then you show up for the two days for like week after week after week, and then you add another day, right? Like there's there's that approach. I guess that's a very practical real life example of like literally. And for now, the last two weeks, I've showed up, I've done the thing. I've showed up, I've done those days. And again, it's even if I didn't, it's like figuring out that grace. And I think for me, the biggest thing that I always come back to, and again, kind of wrapping this whole thing up is getting curious, being a curious observer and a scientist. And like, what, what is this? Like, what does this mean? What do I like? Let me look like look from a different lens versus like being so emotionally connected. Well, I didn't, it's that shame, it's that guilt. Like, I didn't do what I said I was gonna do. So then the next week, you I don't do anything, right? It's that consistency piece. So often when we have that go big or go home, that all or nothing perfectionist, right? Have to do it all. That ends up with self-sabotaging ourselves and not doing anything.

SPEAKER_01 37:24

100%. Perfectly said, because we see, and I love that you told it from your experience, like your personal experience. Because I know sometimes we can sit up here and we can be like, and our clients. Right, right. This one woman. Yeah. One woman. Um totally that's so funny. Yeah, but I love that you tell it from the personal experience because it matters. I mean, it is it is something that the modern woman struggles with. It just is. And it does show up so, so much. And, you know, if it's not perfectionism, it's something else.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

Well, yeah. And on top of adding all of that, those shoulds, when it comes to the habits, on top of the sh everything we already just said, right? On top of all of that as far as like productivity and worth and like all of the things, it like gets tangled all together and it can all just feel so heavy, like so much pressure.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

Yes. And that's where, and again, we did not come into this episode thinking we were going to talk about the rooted feminine because it's still the first module's out, like it's not even a fully launched thing, but it's just been so fun to create it. And in that course, um, there's a section that is over honoring seasons and cycles, like the the female seasons and cycles and all of that, and how we are truly built with different rhythms than men. So again, we are just doing loops here with the full circle moments, but going back to what we said in the beginning about output and productivity, we often not just women, all of us, uh I feel like men too really judge ourselves or place value on ourselves or, you know, think we are valuable by what we produce. And the truth is that we live in so we have a rhythm throughout the month. You know, we just had the perimenopause episode where that rhythm once again changes. So instead of normalizing energy fluctuations and motivation fluctuations throughout any given month, we judge ourselves and we're so hard on ourselves when we can't produce the same amount that we could when we were ovulating, let's say, you know? So again, that scientist piece is so important, the objective observer. This is where knowledge really is key. Understanding yourself, your body, your rhythms. Because if you, I mean, I don't know about you, but most of the women I know, you give them three days out of the month where they're feeling optimal and they can knock out shit that like a man needs a whole month to do, you know. So it's like where are you optimal? And play on your strengths. I think having that compassion, having that understanding is truly the remedy for perfectionism. Because it softens you. You you greet yourself differently. The softening, I love that. Softens you when like think about when you're feeling like really rushed and really crazy and all the things, and then your husband's your husband looks at you or your your friend and says, it's okay, we've got time. You know, it's like it's okay, we've got time. Even that, just saying it's okay, we I've got time, softens. It softens the nervous system, saying that out loud, hearing it said to you, like, so that's you know, little tip number two.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

I love it. We need the nuggets. I mean, yeah, it's the way we're talking to ourselves, it's our inner voice. I feel like we could go on and on and on. And we'll probably, I mean, that's the beauty of this again. It's like we kind of weave these things throughout all of our conversations. So, but I do love that we sat down and we really dove into this. I think it's going to be very helpful and just probably a different conversation than we've heard on and a little bit deeper, right? On perfectionism. So I love it.

SPEAKER_01 41:38

Yeah, we'll probably last thing, we'll probably have to link some articles or something because there is some really interesting research about like that is coming out that's new about speaking to yourself, like how speaking to yourself, how you speak to yourself is more powerful than supplements and medication, you know? So that is a that is a practice that does not come easy, that does not come naturally. Again, we are wired for survival. We're wired to keep ourselves safe, which means we are somewhat wired to assess for threat, to be vigilant, right? Very conscious effort to say, I am good enough. I am loved, I am held, I have time. That is a conscious thing that we have to do. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 42:23

I feel like that's a really good place to end because I'm like so, so good. I don't think I could say anything else better than that.